[5] I myself am hardened, have gone around hills and deserts, in wind and rain, with no lakes at hand, blessed by the falling nights, when I hided myself, completely out of reach. The princes would have brought skilled scribes to do the carvings, so no matter how old the language being carved was(whether it was proto-Egyptian or Egyptian), the glyphs should be consistent to the style and craftsmanship of a trained scribe. The chamber was aligned with the Western Heavens. Follow us on social media to add even more wonder to your day. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people made up 3.6% of the population. [4] For two seasons (eight months) he directed us eastward. Fortunately, these little problems can easily be eliminated with the help of these effective ways to improve our health. [1] They glyphs were "discovered" in the mid to late 20th century. We acknowledge Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Australians and Traditional Custodians of the lands where we live, learn, and work. [4] Other theories for their creation include high school students who copied them from their textbooks in the 1970s and a Yugoslavian immigrant with an interest in Egyptology who etched them in the early 1980s. He was the Son of KHUFU, king of Upper and Lower Egypt. The Gosford Hieroglyphs, or "Gosford Glyphs" for short, are a series of strange, deep-cut markings on a rock in Hunter Valley, New South Wales. Beatrice and I were blessed to have experienced many powerful moments that afternoon, as we explored the sacred area before gathering again that evening where we were able to present our film of the Khemit Schools quick interpretation of the Glyphs. Well, thats not the only surprised discovery it seems. Antioxidants practically inhibit or prevent oxidation. Since their discovery in the 1970s, they have long been dismissed as fakes by authorities and most experts but there are still ongoing attempts to prove the theory they were carved by ancient Egyptians several thousand years ago. crossing hills, desert and pools of water along the way. The archeological ruins of the ancient fortified city of the mysterious Teotenanca civilization. Hidden Inca Tours. [14] We gave egg-yolk from the medicine-chest. Home | Everyday Fun | Bushwalks | Have You Discovered the Gosford Glyphs? [2], The glyphs were first reported by Alan Dash, a local surveyor in Gosford, in the 1970s. This time we take a look at some remarkable hieroglyphs that appear to be ancient Egyptian in origin. von Senff. Original Elder Aunty Minnie Mace also found, or was led to, another object at the same place and time. Ignoring, for the time being, the credentials of what is or isnt engraved on the two walls, there is a bounty of evidence that validates Darkinjung Elder, Aunty Beve Spiers, declaration that not only are some of the Kariong glyphs Egyptian, but there are other glyphs which are of an older tradition that are not Egyptian and were made by our people. [26] Along with the silver dagger, a Royal token of God, our Creator. Archaeologists have also yet to find any mummified remains from the deceased prince buried near the wall of the glyphs. It is known from more recent documentation and photos that there are now glyphs on the eastern wall, so those must have been added since the 1970s when Alan Dash first made his report on the glyphs. Our Harts are overturned, but not broken. Is this our lot from the highest God of the Sacred Mer? Many, like professor Ockinga, would love for the glyphs to be legitimate ones. The Gosford Glyphs Wall of Kariong and Gosford, Australia have been enigma for some years, because of the kind of Egyptian Hieroglyph writings or the peculiar usages and patterns of symbols not common in Old or Middle Kingdom Period in Egypt but that of a later period i.e. Consider supporting our work by becoming a member for as little as $5 a month. Gosford Hieroglyphs - Our Mysterious Earth Near Gosford NSW (60km North of Sydney) on the Central Coast of Australia a few kilometers down a dirt bush track can be found the Australian Mystery. As we were led down the paththrough the forested area, we soon discovered that there was much more to this site than a few rocks with Egyptian hieroglyphs on them. An Egyptologist from Sydney's Macquarie University has rejected any new claims about one of the most mysterious and controversial sites on the New South Wales Central Coast, known as the 'Gosford Hieroglyphs'. Although Von Senff has several degrees, none of them are directly relevant to the study of Ancient Egypt, Egyptian History, Egyptian glyphs, or proto-Egyptian glyphs. [1] FOR HIS HIGHNESS, THE PRINCE, from this wretched place in this land, where we were carried by ship. [20] The three doors of eternity were connected, Source of th translation: Burial site of Lord Nefer-Ti-Ru, by Dr R Jonge. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. These engravings numbering over 300 have the potential to re-write Australian history. Offer subject to change without notice. Von Senff also holds a Bachelor of Arts- English Literature, Australian Defense Studies and German from the University of Queensland and has a Ph.D. in Germanistics." Some symbols of both Old and Middle Kingdom are . Last February, Beatrice Awyan and I embarked on a journey of discovery to both New Zealand and Australia as I was invited to present a series of lectures in Auckland, NZ and Melbourne, AU. Kariong's first British settler was W.H. Check out my books about ancient Egypt here:https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Brien+Foerster+Egypt&ref=nb_sb_noss This page was last edited on 10 December 2021, at 01:21. The "Gosford Glyphs" are located near Kariong, about 60 km north of Sydney, Australia and since their discovery in the 1970s, this set of arguably ancient carvings has achieved widespread notoriety due to their resemblance of ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs. A short story explaining how Mohamed Ibrahim reached the fact that Gosford Glyphs are authentic. The name Kariong was assigned in about 1947. labyrinth of angular tunnels cut deep into the rock beneath the original set of engravings. . Professor Ockinga says as much as he would like the glyphs to be genuine, there is no doubt they are fakes. We have just filmed and investigated a series of tunnels (one over 10 metres in length) and a gallery big enough to park a car in, that run beside and under the two walls. The soldiers, who had served in the Sultanate of Egypt from the mid 1910s to early 1920s, cited an example of shapes in the form of the Sphinx and a pyramid known to have been made by a returning soldier. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed in whole or part without the express written permission of AncientPages.com, Legendary Ynglings: Descendants Of The Norse Gods And Oldest Scandinavian King Dynasty, Runes Were Just As Advanced As Roman Alphabet Writing New Study, Ancient Burials Of Worlds First Horse Riders Found Near The Black Sea, Clevelands Prehistoric Sea Monster Had A Mouth Twice As Large As A Great White Shark, Mysterious Bronze Age Golden Tomb Unearthed In Armenia. In fact, Australian Egyptologist, Professor Naguib Kanawatifirmly believes the intricate set of hieroglyphs they are not authentic,saying how ancient hieroglyphs within the same panels were of widely different periods in history and some of them were even carved backward. The consensus amongst Egyptologists who have visited and studied the glyphs is that they are a hoax, and one filled with several inconsistencies and errors. [28] In the name of the Lord we buried him in the Royal Tomb in the northern part of this place, which was closed at the back side. A statue found at Gympie, said to act as one of five sentries guarding the controversial seven-stepped pyramid at Gympie, is a depiction of Thoth in his more primal ape-like form and has been argued over and often ridiculed. K. (2012, April 21). In conjunction with the release of our fourth Youtube, Egyptians in Australia-Part 4, an ABC Radio series presented by Mary-Louise Vince (Central Coast Radio), a segment on ABC National News (December 10), and under the guidance of Original Elders and advisors, evidence and sites previously unknown or misunderstood will be shared with the general public. ", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gosford_Glyphs&oldid=1134566221, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 19 January 2023, at 08:47. [6] Geologists have stated that the sandstone in which the hieroglyphs are carved erodes quickly and nearby 250-year-old Aborigine petroglyphs (Bulgandry Aboriginal Art Site) show considerably more erosion. 2023 All Rights Reserved. Interestingly, claims that said hieroglyphs are a modern forgery are contested by numerous Egyptologists likeMohamed Ibrahim and Khemit School Co-DirectorYousef Abdel Hakim Awyan(who has studied ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs his entire life) (source). [3] From the mid 1990s, the site started to receive more public attention. Researchers say new discoveries around the mysterious 'Gosford Hieroglyphs' site on the New South Wales Central Coast, have re-ignited debate over whether the region was once visited by ancient Egyptians. Or are they simply a decades-long prank? Regardless of who made them, the glyphs hidden deep in the Australia bush are certainly a sight to behold. THE EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPHS ON THE WEST WALL: mighty one of Lower Egypt, Lord of the Two Adzes. 6. Gosford glyphs. The carvings were first formally reported in 1975 by Alan Dash, a local surveyor working for Gosford Council who had been visiting the area for seven years without seeing the glyphs. For decades now, locals of the New South Wales Central Coast have debated the authenticity of a series of hieroglyphs carved into a hidden rockface in the Brisbane Water National Park. Additionally, some of the glyphs came from thousands of years after the Gosford Glyphs were supposedly carved. Above and all around, and positioned within one kilometre of the walls, are hundreds of Original star markers. Translated: This is what the 5,000-year-old ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs in Australia say. Her vibrant spirit touched me deeply, and I know that memories of her inspiring legacy of service and achievements will live on in the hearts of many.). [Merged] The Kariong Glyphs. The Gosford Glyphs Hoax, Part 4. If you notice something amiss, please email to let us know. The symbols are familiar to anyone with an understanding of ancient Egyptand include an image of Anubis, the name of King Khufu enclosed in the customary cartouche, and many other symbols. It Isnt. Follow us on Twitter to get the latest on the world's hidden wonders. The rock ceiling above the walls collapsed in 1960 after a bulldozer drove on top, that recent event, along with the liberal application of womens urine to the hieroglyphs, explains why the markings look so new. [5] I myself am hardened, have gone around hills and deserts. In fact, we were grateful to be introduced to many fascinating people that day, all coming together in the interest of protecting this siteand honoring its historical and multi-level significance. Von Senff also has no professional experience working in the field of Egyptology, so he is, like the Australian Ray Johnson, also not a genuine Egyptologist (as of early December 2021). Free radicals are particles that have odd electrons. [14] We gave egg-yolk from the medicine-chest, and prayed to Amun, the Hidden One, for he was struck twice. ", He suggested that the glyphs might have been made in the 1920s by Australian soldiers when there was general interest in ancient Egypt after the uncovering of the Tomb of Tutankhamun at that time. Two Ibis-men engraved into rock, both in profile with the head of an ibis and body of a human, seem to resonate with the same ancient Egyptian theme. Are bills set to rise? Strange Tale Of Mysterious Thousand-Year-Old Underground Network Of Caves And Encounters With Subterranean Dwellers, Unexplained Mystery Of The Glowing Woman Who Baffled Scientists, Most Detailed Geological Model Reveals Earths Past 100 Million Years, Ecological Improvement Of Freshwater Ecosystems Benefits Fish And People, Shiitake Mushrooms And Its Evolution A New Study, Scientists Use Satellites To Track Earth Greening Amid Climate Change, Augmented Reality Headset Enables Users To See Hidden Objects. It is more,likely however that these rock carvings were created by railway workers in the 1930s. The Gosford Glyphs, also known as Kariong Hieroglyphs, are a group of approximately 300 Egyptian-style hieroglyphs located in Kariong, New South Wales, Australia. However, we have to continue, we cannot look back. Since then, the hieroglyphs have been claimed by amateur Egyptologists to be authentic script created about 4,500 years ago, by Egyptians who sailed to Australia and engraved their story into the stones after becoming shipwrecked.[5]. Written byEllen Lloyd - AncientPages.com, Copyright AncientPages.com All rights reserved. You and your kids will be able to spot carvings of birds, fish, beetles, people and more. Like us on Facebook to get the latest on the world's hidden wonders. Look for a warning sign on the boulder warning of falling rocks. The idea that archaeologists, like professor Ockinga, would want to hide the truth about Egyptian visitors to Australia is unfounded and evidently false.[1]. There is also evidence that ancient Egyptian mummies contain traces of tobacco and cocaine in their DNA. In the first documented report of the glyphs "[Alan] Dash investigated the site and noticed some hieroglyphs carved along the western wall of sandstone, although at the time nothing was carved into the eastern wall." [1], From the initial discovery of the glyphs, changes have been made to them over periods of Egyptologists and enthusiasts alike checking and documenting them. Parking: Parking is available at the corner of Bambara Road and Woy Woy Road, Kariong. "[10] His claim implies that not only has there been genuine archaeological evidence of the site's validity, but that the glyphs, which he has no credentials to translate/decipher, are both accurate carvings and written in a "coherent" matter. A new set of hieroglyphs were found, filmed and interpreted. The Khemit School team was so excited by the prospect of our visit, that we began to study the pictures of the Glyphs (that had been sent to us by Sonya at an earlier date) in order to create a video of their findingsso that Beatrice and I would have something to offer as a gift, in return for this generous invitation. They were first reported in 1975 by Alan Dash, a local surveyor who had been visiting the area for seven years. "I'd be the first person who'd welcome some sort of link that because it would make my subject relevant to Australian history," he said. Check out these videos which explain the history behind the curious hieroglyphs. Not only did they believe that they were authentic.but, they could begin to understand the story that the glyphs were telling us. Location: The starting point is at the top of Bambara Road, Kariong. Recently discovered artefacts and archaeology, corroborated by testimonials given by Original Elders and Custodians of Lore, stand united in confirming an ancient Egyptian presence and extensive period of contact. Drink mineral water to get the required calcium, according to a German study. To begin, follow the gentle and charming trail down until you come to a fork in the path, then take the track to the left. Your Ultimate Guide to Christmas on the Central Coast. And it is this more ancient representation that is found twice in Australia, extending the horizons considerably. The Victoria-era quarantine station for Sydney. Some claim that the Gosford glyphs were made by college students, while others insist . In what only adds to the quality and quantity of this cross-cultural partnership, there are two sets of Aboriginal engravings, one containing 31 separate and distinct human characters and the other five figures, of which three have human bodies and what appears to be crocodile heads. This is where the fun really begins! Over the past year we have discovered or have been shown seven pieces of evidence/archaeology that is strongly suggestive of ancient Egyptian involvement. The site includes an engraved Ankh, an essential accompaniment to Thoth, placed alongside an Ibis footprint (Thoth's recent animal counterpart) and the 'River of Life'. How Did A Major Cooling Event 8,200 Years Ago Affect Hunter-Gatherers? (2021). First sighted in Australia in the 1900s, it is said that the enigmatic set of symbols carved on a massive rock has been present in local folklore more than a century. Author:, 19.01.2019 Effective ways to improve health, 19.01.2019 Red fruits charge antioxidants, SYSTEM OF ANCIENT MONUMENTAL CONSTRUCTIONS. Australia Hieroglyphics Gosford. The sandstone rocks were huge, creating a tall corridor that we were told, once had a roof covering it. This leads you along a muddy path (keep as eye out for tadpoles along the way) which opens up to an area with large rock formations on the left. The Egyptian Glyphs at Gosford in the Brisbane Water National Park in the Kariong area are a big attraction here despite the barrage of academic insistence that the symbols cannot possibly be real or ancient. It is accessible by either the Lyre Trig fire trail across the road from the fire station or Bambara road (gated dirt road) further up. Discover 40 Central Coast Bushwalks Perfect for Families! 5. These are now generally dismissed as a hoax. We have seen engravings amongst Original rock platforms in the immediate area of the Egyptian God Thoth in ibis/human form, in ape/human form, in judgement pose with a moon and sun in each hand, a separate Ankh and ibis footprint, the Egyptian God of Inheritance, an Egyptian boat, etc. In a letter they state that one of the park officers caught someone adding cartouches to the wall with a chisel.[5]. The combination of a lack of mummified remain and an excess of inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the glyphs themselves lead to the conclusion that no Egyptian princes traveled to or dies in Gosford. Since the site was first discovered in the 1970's it's been surrounded by controversy and claims, but recent new research is . They were first reported in 1975 by Alan Dash, a local surveyor who had been visiting the area for seven years. "It wouldn't be at all surprising for someone who'd had this fascination for Egypt to have done the same thing up there.". When evaluating the bona fides of the hieroglyphs on the wall, the other seven pieces of evidence must be factored into that historical big-picture. The Kariong Hieroplyphs or Gosford Glyphs are pseudo-Egyptian Hieorglyphs, first found in 1975, their origin is unknown but they are believed to have been done not long before their discovery. [19] I counted and impounded the daggers of our men. > Subscribe to our weekly newsletter> About Us> Contact Us> Terms and Conditions> Privacy Policy, > About Us > Contact Us > Terms and Conditions > Privacy Policy. The discovery by Dan Collins of an exotic basalt chisel encrusted with olivite crystals, which was found beneath the newly filmed panel of glyphs, is intriguing. Found in 1975 the Kariong Glyphs have offered intrigue and mystery to academics, hikers and national park services for almost 50 years. Please check prices, opening times and participation requirements with venues before loading your kids in the car. The glyphs site at Kariong, near Gosford in NSW, Australia features almost 300 engravings on two sandstone walls, which some believe are an example of an early form of Egyptian writing and have drawn widespread interest over the years. (I am sad to report that Auntie Beve passed shortly after we left, in April. [6] In our last camp I cooked fowl on hand, and brought rain, but hurt my back carrying the Golden Falcon Standard, crossing hills, desert and pools of water along the way. The village of about fifteen families, mostly workers at the training school, was first called Kendall Heights, then Penang Mountain. until you find a dirt clearing on your left. The existence of a genuine Egyptologist with the same first and last name, Ray Johnson, may have led to validation to some extent of the translation of the glyphs, whether it was intentional or not on the American Ray Johnson's behalf. Macquarie University. The chamber was aligned with the Western Heavens. The Macquarie University Professor, along with many others, has his own explanation for the mysterious inscriptions. The Train fare to Gosford Glyphs costs about $2.65 - $9.31. A group of amateur researchers has sparked new interest in the site, having found a new, smaller set of hieroglyphs in the area. [4], The parallel walls upon which the glyphes are carved, Miscellaneous symbols, including a sphinx and the Eye of Horus, Egyptian God Anubis, the largest carving on the site. One of the most controversial subjects in modern history is questioning whether advanced ancient civilizations, like the ancient Egyptian civilizations, managed to travel across the globe. Gosford Glyphs: Did The Ancient Egyptians Visit Australia? More than 1,000 stone figures were discovered in a small Nigerian town, where they had been sitting for centuries. 143K views 2 years ago #egypt #australia UnchartedX investigation into the Gosford Glyphs, encompassing recent research that draws some startling new conclusions as to the authenticity of the. "The things that have been found next to it, alongside and around the walls that needs to be factored in," he said. [1], Australian Professor of Egyptology Naguib Kanawati has also stated that they are not authentic and that they "were constructed in the early 1980s",[6] concluding that the hieroglyphs within the same panels were of widely different periods and some were carved backwards. The glyphs are here. [8] The Sun is pouring down upon our back! Team, A. C. (2017, November 16). For another link to Egypt see our post on the Ku-ring-Gai Sphinx. According to the same source above, Von Senff states "These Hieroglyphs are real and have existed for some 4,500 years in Australia. The Gosford Glyphs (also called petroglyphs) are located near Kariong not far from Gosford on the New South Wales Central Coast. [16] Seated all aside, our men watched the funeral, with concern and deep love. This post may contain affiliate links, which means we may receive a commission, at no cost to you, if you make a purchase through a link. [17] Then we recovered ourselves. [13] All creek and river beds are dry, and we are dismayed. Learn how your comment data is processed. According to the 2016 census of Population, there were 6,385 people in Kariong. (n.d.). He says this was also around the same time many Australian soldiers, who were stationed in Egypt, had come back from the First World War. "It'd be wonderfulbut I'm afraid it's just not possible.". [9] This Regal person NEFER-TI-RU came from the temple of God in Penu, Egypt. Kariong (/kr/) is a locality of the Central Coast region of New South Wales, Australia west of Gosford along the Central Coast Highway. "[11] in order to translate the glyphs to any extent. Jul 13, 2020 | Bushwalks, Everyday Fun, Outdoor Adventures | 0. Facilities: There are no bathroom facilities available, and youll need to take your own water. [9] This Ray Johnson was not in any way connected to the translation of the Gosford Glyphs. In addition, if only some of the glyphs had been on the walls 5,000 years ago, then the pseudoarchaeological story that has been constructed around the glyphs would have been incomplete, so not possible that any of the glyphs were carved 5,000 years ago. Parry in 1901. She thinks it is a human bone. This site is no hoax, but a genuine archaeological discovery; as is proven by the newly discovered 2nd set of glyphs. Loading Preview. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-14/glyphs-reax/4428134, https://www.ancient-code.com/translated-this-is-what-the-5000-year-old-ancient-egyptian-hieroglyphs-in-australia-say/, https://ancientneareast.org/2012/04/21/the-gosford-glyphs-hoax-part-4/, http://karionghieroglyphs.blogspot.com/p/the-npws-reluctantly-conduct-regular.html, http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SjbEqjrdrYw/UxREmwHYXnI/AAAAAAAAAWw/1dTMc5qCV0g/s1600/NPWS+letter.jpg, Https://Mattbelair.Com/208-the-Ancient-Egyptian-Creation-Story-with-Egyptologist-Mohamed-Ibrahim-Top-Consciousness-Podcast/, https://mattbelair.com/208-the-ancient-egyptian-creation-story-with-egyptologist-mohamed-ibrahim-top-consciousness-podcast/, https://hiddenincatours.com/gosford-glyphs-did-the-ancient-egyptians-visit-australia/, https://www.slideshare.net/rmdejonge/go-sford-4, https://wiza.co/d/university-of-illinois-at-chicago/095e/ray-johnson, https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/224889-merged-the-kariong-glyphs/, https://docplayer.net/24987833-Ancient-egyptians-in-australia.html, https://researchers.mq.edu.au/en/persons/boyo-ockinga, https://researchers.mq.edu.au/en/persons/naguib-kanawati, http://www.fakearchaeology.wiki/index.php?title=Gosford_Glyphs&oldid=4402. "If by any chance they had reached Australia, you'd expect them to land on the west coast rather than over on the east coast," he said. The Australian Tribal Elders speak of their knowledge of being visited by Egyptians thousands of years ago. "Egyptologist debunks new claims about 'Gosford glyphs', The stories and legends behind the hieroglyphs in Kariong, "Ancient Egyptians lived near Woy Woy: fact or fantasy? It is accessible by either the Lyre Trig fire trail across the road from the fire station or Bambara road (gated dirt road) further up. See. The glyphs are not signposted, so you have to search for them. It is not magnetic nor made of iron ore or lead, and took Aunty Minnie half an hour to clean off the dirt, and may well be an ancient Egyptian relic, perhaps one of Nefer-Ti-Rus personal effects. The site is in the west Gosford suburb of Kariong off Woy Woy Road in the Brisbane Waters National Park approx 100 kms north of Sydney just off the F1 Freeway. Subscribe to our mailing list to receive an email when we add a new story. Pasco, L. (2011, May 17). Hidden behind a large boulder, they can be hard to find. Far fewer know their real story, A middle-aged man in glasses smiles with his arms around two young K-pop stars, one with pink hair The messy family drama behind one of the world's biggest K-pop empires, 'Please confirm what Muslim refers to': Why Ali's birthday payment for his nephew was flagged by his bank, Max Verstappen takes Bahrain F1 pole, Aussie Oscar Piastri ousted in first Q1, Motocross rider dies after falling from bike at Victoria's Wonthaggi Motocross Track, 15 people rescued from Central Victorian mine after fire. We believe what the Elders revealed during our interview (Egyptians in Australia-Part 2) is the final word and must be accepted as such, for they speak on behalf of their ancestors who were there at the time of arrival. The Mt Penang Training School for Boys (later the Mount Penang Juvenile Justice Centre) was opened in 1911. The glyphs site at Kariong features almost 300 engravings on two large sandstone walls, which some believe contain examples of an early form of Egyptian writing. These engravings numbering over 300 have the potential to re-write Australian history. "[T]here are many reasons why they are not accepted as genuine hieroglyphics "First of all the way they're cut is not the way ancient Egyptian rock inscriptions are produced, they're very disorganised "There's also a problem with the actual shapes of the signs that are used. But Professor Ockinga, who first saw the inscriptions 20 years ago, says there are many reasons why they are not accepted as genuine hieroglyphics. Not only are the Gosford 'Glyphs legitimate, the scribes accurately used several ancient hieroglyphs and 'grammatical' variations which, crucially, were not even documented in Egyptian hieroglyphic texts until 2012, immediately disproving all long-standing 'hoax' theories. [4], Von Senff is one of the biggest supporters of the Gosford Glyphs being legitimate Egyptian carvings. The glyphs have since been dismissed as a hoax by authorities and academics after their discovery in the 1970s, but there are still attempts to prove the belief that they were carved by the ancient Egyptians about 4,500 years ago.
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